Posts by Incognigo Montoya

75

Rock band titles from JW history / culture

by sir82 in

jw
friends

on another thread, undercover suggested "adam and the dinosaurs".. i came up with these:.

green bible dinosaurs.

jezebel and the fornicators.

a month ago i travelled alone to italy for three days and i had the opportunity to visit the beautiful florence and re-visit many parts of rome.. but most importantly, i had the opportunity to stay alone and think about my situation and to make up my mind.. i've had very clear for almost 5 years that i will eventually leave the religion, but i couldn't decide when.. but now i know : i will leave on april 20th, the day after the memorial.. that day i will talk to my parents (this is by far the hardest thing to do) and soon afterwards i will talk to my closest friends, then i will send my disassociation letter.

i know that i will let them down, i will hurt them, most probably some of them will cry... but i need to live coherently for the first time in my life.

i'm sure that living in this contradiction is affecting and will affect my mental health and it's time for me to help myself instead of others.

Incognigo Montoya

Your life is yours to live. Backing out won't discredit you. It would be understandable. You are going against everything you've ever known. Like jumping out of an airplane for the first time. A great many people back out, many times over, for understandable reasons. You've got to do it when you're ready. Sounds like you've been contemplating this for quite some time, and given it a lot of thought. So you should. But it sounds like you've made the right decision for you. How you execute that decision, and how quickly you do it, is also up to you. It's not a race. For some, quick and clean, like tearing off a bandaid. For others a slow and steady fade is best. Do what is best for you (though once you start the process, by divulging your intention to leave, and your apostasy, you are committed and you need to have the resolve to see it through, immediately. Like parachuting, once you've jumped, you cant change your mind and crawl back in the plane!) But if you back down, and it takes a few times to build up the courage and finally go through with it, then that's ok..no one here is gonna judge you for that. I will say that the faster you start living your life, the happier you'll be, and the easier it will be. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

Incognigo Montoya

Bourne, we're reading from the same playbook, my friend.

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

Incognigo Montoya

Btw, how do you guys highlight others quotations? I have been trying but it has me stumped, lol.

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

Incognigo Montoya

MMM:

Oh so you are saying that if he wasn’t buying, I would have gotten council?

Maybe, maybe not, but how could he? He didn't have a leg to stand on. Perhaps he wouldn't have cared, regardless. A great many elders wouldn't have. But that is not the standard by which the organization holds itself, "beyond reproach".

MMM:

And when I would visit an elder’s home with liquor cabinets stocked, that too is elder “privilege”?

Not necessarily, but there's a difference between what you do, privately, behind closed doors, and what you are seen doing publicly. Again, perception.

This was drilled into me since I was a small child, by my father, by the elders from the platform, at assemblies, and in publications. So much so, that it is part of my make up. I am constantly aware of how my actions are being perceived by others. It's actually served me well for the most part, but that's beside the point here.

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

Incognigo Montoya

MMM, please see my above, revised statement. (It seems I added to it, after you commented. Sorry)

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

Incognigo Montoya

MMM, well I would say you had leverage. 😁

If he was doing the same thing, he had no ground to stand upon, to council you. This is the argument we are making about TM. He stands upon high moral ground, giving harsh council to his 8 million sheep, critisizing and condemning petty actions, and then he's spotted doing something that the average jw would easily be questioned and counciled on, if another JW were to observe and rat him out to the elders.

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

Incognigo Montoya

Bourne, I was with you up and to the baseball cap and fake Groucho Marx disguise. I think that's pretty far fetched, perhaps you were being facetious? Up until that, I think that's been the culture of jw-dom for the last 50 years, or at least since I've been associated, and, if anything, I find it to be a bit more lax in recent years, but my perception is only of a few congregations I've been a part of. And we all know that the personality of a congregation can vary depending on the local and the disposition of elders and others in the congregation. But, the overall mantra, always give a good witness by our deeds and actions, never do anything that may be perceived as wrong, so as to stumble others. Appearances are everything. Perception is often grounds for council and prying to see if further action is warranted. So in that sentiment, you are absolutely correct.

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

Incognigo Montoya

Jehalepeno and MeanMrMustard, you are correct in that it isn't a big scandal, merely "scandalous" or the appearance of a scandal, if that makes sense. It is in no way remotely close to the molestation cover up issues, blood issues, or even the UN issue. But in all those cases (with maybe the exception of the ARC) we dont have any direct link to one of the governing body, on camera, doing something out of the box surprising and questionable. Imagine if there was footage of AM going into the UN building...

Anyway, I can definitely see it from yours, Simon's, dubstepped, and a few others perspective. I too dont care for frivolous bashing for the sake of bashing, as it is a disservice to real issues and makes the exjw community look bad. In this case however, I think it justified. As I pointed out in an earlier comment, two things stand out to me;

1. How it looks

How we are perceived by others, especially worldly people, is a paramount issue in the organization, and one Tony loves to prod the R&F with. We are all familiar with his veiws on tight fitting clothes (among other things), whether it be your theocratic attire, or just your casual wear, but if you're out in public, it's the perception it gives. Even sisters jogging in "spanx"(as he referred to it), spandex, are dressed inappropriate, in his view, and I'm sure if he happened upon a bro, wearing spandex bicycle shorts, he'd freak the ef out too. He rails on JWs to be constantly aware of the way they are perceived, and to always be beyond reproach, giving a good witness, no part of the world around them, lest they send the wrong message. Again, what message was he sending? What if later that day, or the next day, he called on the cashier or other patrons in that store, who witnessed his purchase, out in the field ministry? What if one of them were a bible study of someone, and saw him giving his fiery sermons on JW broadcasting, and they're thinking, "I just saw that guy buying a dozen bottles of booze, yesterday " (I think that would be hilarious actually, 😆). By his own moral code, he is in the wrong here. Hypocrisy.

2. How the money was spent.

When you encourage and admonish others, who revere you, to donate even their icecream money, to the organization you helm, yet you spend your own money, OR donated money (we dont know which it is, but it's one or the other, and where it came from is irrelevant to the actual issue) , on a frivolous, non necessity, like $800+ in booze, that is hypocritical.

Who the liquor is for, whether he's a drunk or not, the day and time, the clothes he's wearing, the location, the car he's driving, all irrelevant and purely speculative at best.

Is it scandalous, not really.

Is it hypocritical, absolutely.

Is it gonna end him? No way. The R&F who love him won't bat an eye, if they even find out about it. It could, however, push someone who has doubts, to become fed up, and break free. So I think this is a valuable piece of footage. It may be a puzzle piece that connects to later pieces, and forms a much bigger picture that we have yet to fully see. I suspect that Tony's future public council will be recorded and played alongside footage of his liquor store run, to our amusement, for years to come. At the very least, it's great comic relief. Funny because most of us ex JWs see the ironic hypocrisy, and all we can do is laugh.

519

Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch

by UnshackleTheChains in

i was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).

you can't write this stuff.

right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..

Incognigo Montoya

As it was put to me, as a young publisher, and repeatedly expressed over the years, from the platform and publication; what if, later in the day, brother Morris was out in field service, and he rang the door bell of the clerk at the liquor store, from where he just purchased 12 bottles of expensive scotch? What would she be thinking? Or what if it was the Gentleman he had the friendly conversation with? Or any other customer who was present in the store? What kind of message did it send them, and would that give pause to a potential sheep, if he were to call on them out in the field ministry? What if one of them was a study? And at the next study, the study conductor introduces them to JW broadcasting, where they are introduced to Brother Morris, who they recognize as the guy who just bought 12 bottles, in the liquor store, a few days ago!

All pure speculation. But so is a witness going into a bar. Or a church. Or an R rated movie.